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Panther 2 is Underpowered


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Cataphractos_Libritor #1 Posted 03 April 2021 - 02:23 AM

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Literally. 12 p/wr. What is a medium with no armour and no mobility? It's a glorified tank destroyer because you can't actually fulfil any useful medium roles, and at that point why don't you just take an actual tank destroyer? Why did they nerf the tank's mobility so bad? Why did they increase the weight to 55 tons? Why don't they give it a better engine to actually simulate the upgraded engines the Germans were planning to put into the tank? Is it just because German tanks aren't allowed to be good? They just need to give the tank a 900 HP engine, it would still be the worst power to weight ratio of the mediums in it's tier but it wouldn't be ridiculously bad. 

 

Back when I first played the game I played the pz 4 H with the 75mm gun. When you manage to flank your opponents but can't even pen their sides without p2w rounds it really induces rage, and it was probably the bad experience I had with this tank that caused me to quit the game. Seriously, having iconic tanks perform like crap makes people leave the game and leaves only the tryhards who will play whatever obj xxx is the most OP. 


Edited by Cataphractos_Libritor, 03 April 2021 - 02:36 AM.


Ezz #2 Posted 03 April 2021 - 04:52 AM

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Play it as support and it can still work. It's got one of the best guns in a medium in the tier. As you note it's not a premium but ironically, neither is it a p88.

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Cataphractos_Libritor #3 Posted 03 April 2021 - 12:43 PM

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If you want to sit back and snipe, why wouldn't you pick the Borsig with way better gun and camo? If you want to go and support heavies, why wouldn't you pick an actual heavy with the same penetration but way better armour? Having "better pen that mediums" is pretty useless if you can't actually get in medium spots and flank, the pen is extremely marginal against the front of most tanks. The Panther often can't even pen the front turret/hull of heavies or mediums one tier higher. 

CardinalMite #4 Posted 03 April 2021 - 01:43 PM

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View PostCataphractos_Libritor, on 03 April 2021 - 04:43 AM, said:

If you want to sit back and snipe, why wouldn't you pick the Borsig with way better gun and camo? If you want to go and support heavies, why wouldn't you pick an actual heavy with the same penetration but way better armour? Having "better pen that mediums" is pretty useless if you can't actually get in medium spots and flank, the pen is extremely marginal against the front of most tanks. The Panther often can't even pen the front turret/hull of heavies or mediums one tier higher. 

What makes you think playing support means sitting back and sniping necessarily?

 

Or shooting the front of heavies? Although.. 223 standard pen is decent, 260+ premium can totally work. Especially with its accuracy and dpm. Also don't sit out on front of the heavy, pop out between its shots from hard cover/ behind your heavies.

 

It certainly is not a good tank for sure. So you have to take positions from the start of the match that will mean flank shots rather than relying on speed you look for where the enemy will push through and setup such that as they push they flank themselves.  

 

Alternatively setup to shoot where the enemy may try to flank in their faster mediums. Prevent your heavies getting flanked.

 

If none of the above is possible, go fight where the other lower tiers are, or concentrate on tracking higher tiers.

 

Better mobility would definitely be welcome of course. It used to be a worse tank than it is now it was buffed.


Edited by CardinalMite, 03 April 2021 - 02:04 PM.

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CelestiaLudenberg #5 Posted 04 April 2021 - 09:09 AM

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Panther and Panther 2 being underpowered is paid off by the E50 being an extremely strong tier 9, arguably at the very top alongside the 430/Standard B/Protopard

 

E50M isn't that amazing, but is still very solid, so there is good stuff to look forward to.

 

Panther 2 needs the old engine brought back, it was 870HP, but removed way back in like 0.8.8, along with most of the top engines on the German HT/MT. E75 used to have 1200HP, but now is only 900, same with the E50. They are still well balanced, but the Panther suffers.

 

It's just something you have to suffer through.


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Cataphractos_Libritor #6 Posted 05 April 2021 - 01:48 AM

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Therein lies the problem. It's not like it's completely unviable to play, but it's painfully slow and an unenjoyable experience. And when new players start up the game at jump right in to playing their favourite historical tanks and then have a horrible time it obviously makes them just drop the game completely. Pro players aren't affected because they just play the OP tanks and any bad tanks they have to grind through can be managed with p2w mechanics. And it makes no sense that the Panther 2 is slow because the Panther was always designed to be a mobile sniper, and the Panther 2 is supposed to be the apotheosis of the Panther. It makes no sense from a historical or balance perspective.

Zynth #7 Posted 05 April 2021 - 11:59 AM

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I remember when it was worse.

 

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afoxq #8 Posted 05 April 2021 - 06:14 PM

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View PostZynth, on 05 April 2021 - 11:59 AM, said:

I remember when it was worse.


Where were you during the Great Transmission Fires of Pre-9.3 Patch ?

 


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Zynth #9 Posted 05 April 2021 - 10:24 PM

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View Postafoxq, on 05 April 2021 - 06:14 PM, said:


Where were you during the Great Transmission Fires of Pre-9.3 Patch ?

 

Ah yes, where Germany suffers.

Get shot in the lower plate, get set on fire.


 

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EPIC389 #10 Posted 06 April 2021 - 08:28 AM

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Panther 2 excels at second line support, compared to the rest of the tier 8 mediums. You need to take advantage of your teammates, and use them to soak the fire for you. 

 

The best way to describe the tank is probably "clumsy". It's bulky, huge, not particularly well armoured, and has some mobility issues, but it's quite fast in a straight line. In return you get one of the best medium rammers in the game and arguably the best medium tank gun at tier 8. It's not meta, but it's not a tank you'd want to underestimate either. You just need to adapt to the playstyle it offers.

 



mttspiii #11 Posted 06 April 2021 - 01:42 PM

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View PostEPIC389, on 06 April 2021 - 08:28 AM, said:

 You need to take advantage of your teammates, and use them to soak the fire for you. 

 

Impossible in the ASIA server. All its players are trying to take advantage of fellow teammates. Everyone expects you to soak fire for them.


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Cataphractos_Libritor #12 Posted 06 April 2021 - 08:42 PM

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I find it's more important to have the tactical mobility to get places the enemy doesn't expect rather than sit in the known locations and hope that the enemy shows you the weak points of their armour. 

Cataphractos_Libritor #13 Posted Yesterday, 10:10 PM

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https://www.youtube....h?v=oKZ95l005wE

 

This video basically confirms my suspicions. Dispersion is a worthless stat with very little tangible benefits in-game (try to rely on "German accuracy" to beat KV-2 in a sniper war, never gonna happen, was killed the other day from 500m), and the very game mechanics themselves make German tanks weak by nerfing their supposed strong points. Not sure I'll be playing this game much longer, I don't want to support jingoistic fantasies of the dev team, but mainly because I'm not enjoying the game and I get more frustrated every time I play it. And I'm not sure if it's the tanks I play or not but it's a moot point because I have no interest in any other nationality in any case.

 

P.S. my biggest point of contention isn't weak German tanks but blatant p2w gold ammo mechanic, I don't mind spending money on a game but I'm never going to spend money to get an unfair advantage over other players 


Edited by Cataphractos_Libritor, Yesterday, 10:18 PM.


Ezz #14 Posted Today, 06:43 AM

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Yeah, was going to say, if you thought a bit of russian bias was the worst thing about the game, you have another thing coming. But you PS'd more. Id probably add in a shift away from a balanced game in favor of revenue as another major issue. But anyway, while your are still playing, take a break for a few days to see if you feel different enough. You might find you can overlook some of the issues and keep playing.


Edited by Ezz, Today, 07:34 AM.

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CardinalMite #15 Posted Today, 07:33 AM

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I find it strange to just limit yourself to one nationality, you miss out tanks that would suit the way you like playing. But each to their own I guess.

 

I will generally say though if you aren't enjoying the game don't play it. Take a break, your account will still be there later on if you feel like coming back.

 

Also try not to get too triggered by the whole premium ammo thing. You can't change the fact it is there so raging about it just sends your blood pressure higher to no purpose.

 

Technically anyone whether p2p or f2p can shoot premium ammo so saying it is an unfair advantage isn't really true. Not saying you can't dislike premium ammo as a mechanic though and if that is one reason you don't enjoy playing the game then fair enough.


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