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What Heavy tank line for a HT newbie late 2021


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MeanunNasty #1 Posted 12 September 2021 - 07:48 PM

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Hiya all,

 

I know there are a few of these posts from earlier this year when you google it but since the Polish and Czech heavy lines have come in I can't find much.  I would like to give HTs a go for a bit having tried them when I first came back and doing pretty badly.  I have a KV-1 and the American T5 HT.  I have the reward T9  American and USSR heavies from the battlepass.  Nonetheless I read the later American HTs are not that good apart from the t-29 and it seems some of the later releases seem to be relatively OP compared to what has been out.   Chinese HT's seem to do well in results stats but poor gun depression and one of the videos I watched suggested they needed really good crews, bond items and food to do well (?think it was Claus Kellerman).  I am unlikely to ever play T10 but will try to work to T8-9 once I feel a bit more confident.

 

Was after some advice on what would be a solid HT line for a relative HT noob to pursue now - one of the new lines (Czech in particular) or one of the old faithfuls such as USSR, UK or China?

 

Thanks for any hep.



The_Big_M #2 Posted 12 September 2021 - 09:15 PM

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Depends what you're looking for. The Russian line has some popular heavies e.g. 277, and the British line is good as an all-rounder. German is a strength for armour so a popullar candidate if you need to do blocking missions. I'm a fan of the Polish tier 10 heavy but not so much tiers 8/9. Czech is popular because of its unique 2shot ability, so if you like that idea you might want to consider it.

FramFramson #3 Posted 13 September 2021 - 04:16 AM

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Russian HTs in general at high tiers will have great turrets, great mobility for a heavy (beating some mediums), and be good sidescrapers with some troll spaced armour in the bargain. They also tend to have very consistent playstyles from T8 to TX, so you can get used to that as you go. Main drawback is they tend to have poor gun depression and the gun handling and accuracy varies in quality from tank to tank.

 

Very roughly in order, I'd suggest the following.

 

For a newcomer to higher tiers, I would recommend the IS-7 line as a good all-around line with a bit of an emphasis on armour (best turret on a Russian TX and strong hull armour as well) and speed, which will help a learning player with its more forgiving nature. Plus, the Tier 8 IS-3 in that same line is still one of the best tech tree Tier 8s in the game, when tech tree Tier 8s are notorious for being low spots in a lot of lines and also suffering enormously for having to fight with teams made up almost entirely of frequently-superior premiums. The main thing to remember about this line is that the "pike nose" requires you not to angle too much (especially if sidescraping), as presenting the flat of your hull cheeks invalidates the frontal hull armour's effectiveness, which is dependent on its angle.

 

Alternately, the Polish 60TP  is similar in being heavily armoured, and with better gun depression and high alpha, but less DPM and a lot slower. It's the closest to what someone might imagine a truly Heavy tank to be, all armour and a big gun. If you just want to be a Big Dumb Heavy in every sense of the word, this is about as close as it gets.

 

If you feel you can work with less armour, the 277 line is a bit better than the IS-7 in an overall sense, especially the gun which has much better pen and gun handling than the IS-7, but the hull is much weaker (turret is excellent and nearly as strong as the IS7's). The T9 in that line, the T-10 is an excellent tank with an identical playstyle to the 277. So long as you can keep hull down with only modest gun depression (which means finding the subtle low spots in terrain and may require some experience with doing so), you'll be able to do well. In short, the 277 has a higher ceiling than the IS-7, but it also requires a higher level of skill to do reasonably in.

 

The Vz.55 is not nearly as impenetrable as the Russian tanks, but still has decent, usable armour (a pretty strong turret, but a hull which is much weaker), speed as good as most Russian heavies, and the explosive power of a 2-shell burst with high alpha. You probably want some experience with the rhythm of autoloaders before considering this line, though a burst limited to only 2 shots is about as forgiving as autoloaders get. It also gets the high gun depression, same as the Polish 60 TP (and unlike the Russians) if gun dep is important to you.

 

The other Russian HT lines are a bit more gimmicky, so probably require a preference for their particular gimmicks.

 

I would not recommend the British line as a first TX heavy line.The T9 and TX are strong tanks (virtually impenetrable turret on the TX, notably stronger than even Russian turrets), but are slow and absolutely must be played hulldown to really shine which can make them unforgiving for the inexperienced. Plus the grind from T6 to T8 is wretched and the tanks are highly idiosyncratic if not outright awful. While fun can be had in those mid-tier British HTs if you happen to catch their zen, most people typically end up hating them.


Edited by FramFramson, 13 September 2021 - 07:44 AM.


AlexTheKid72 #4 Posted 13 September 2021 - 05:24 AM

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I would recommend the T95/FV4201 line ......
Seriously though, the IS-7 line is a great place to start, like Fram suggested.
 

IMHO the best tech tree heavy, tier-for-tier is USA T29 (Tier 7). Stop there, and learn HT play with it. It's very forgiving.


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FramFramson #5 Posted 13 September 2021 - 07:33 AM

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Yeah, there's nothing wrong with getting  the T29 and stopping there on that line before grinding another line. It's not hard to grind out a T7, you already have the T5, and the T29 is as good as Alex says.


mttspiii #6 Posted 13 September 2021 - 08:26 AM

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Haven't tried the Italian or Czech HT's, but by far the easier lines to grind are probably the Soviets and the Poles.

 

Some stand-out HT's would probably be:

- all the tier 5 HT's

- M6

- T29, 45TP. Tiger P lost its shine ever since the reticle became reliable

- VK 100


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Ezz #7 Posted 13 September 2021 - 11:07 AM

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The italian 8 and 9 are both pretty nice. The 8 gets almost med like mobility, while the 9 gets some semblance of armor - both with the flexibility of autoreloaders. Maybe not ideal for first time up a tree, but certainly worth looking into at some point.

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FramFramson #8 Posted 13 September 2021 - 05:55 PM

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View Postmttspiii, on 12 September 2021 - 07:26 PM, said:

the reticle became reliable

 

Haw haw haw, you funny guy!



MeanunNasty #9 Posted 13 September 2021 - 08:55 PM

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Thanks guys!  Much appreciated.

Several_Sins #10 Posted 14 September 2021 - 09:05 AM

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View PostFramFramson, on 13 September 2021 - 06:16 AM, said:

Russian HTs in general at high tiers will have great turrets, great mobility for a heavy (beating some mediums), and be good sidescrapers with some troll spaced armour in the bargain. They also tend to have very consistent playstyles from T8 to TX, so you can get used to that as you go. Main drawback is they tend to have poor gun depression and the gun handling and accuracy varies in quality from tank to tank.

 

Very roughly in order, I'd suggest the following.

 

For a newcomer to higher tiers, I would recommend the IS-7 line as a good all-around line with a bit of an emphasis on armour (best turret on a Russian TX and strong hull armour as well) and speed, which will help a learning player with its more forgiving nature. Plus, the Tier 8 IS-3 in that same line is still one of the best tech tree Tier 8s in the game, when tech tree Tier 8s are notorious for being low spots in a lot of lines and also suffering enormously for having to fight with teams made up almost entirely of frequently-superior premiums. The main thing to remember about this line is that the "pike nose" requires you not to angle too much (especially if sidescraping), as presenting the flat of your hull cheeks invalidates the frontal hull armour's effectiveness, which is dependent on its angle.

 

Alternately, the Polish 60TP  is similar in being heavily armoured, and with better gun depression and high alpha, but less DPM and a lot slower. It's the closest to what someone might imagine a truly Heavy tank to be, all armour and a big gun. If you just want to be a Big Dumb Heavy in every sense of the word, this is about as close as it gets.

 

If you feel you can work with less armour, the 277 line is a bit better than the IS-7 in an overall sense, especially the gun which has much better pen and gun handling than the IS-7, but the hull is much weaker (turret is excellent and nearly as strong as the IS7's). The T9 in that line, the T-10 is an excellent tank with an identical playstyle to the 277. So long as you can keep hull down with only modest gun depression (which means finding the subtle low spots in terrain and may require some experience with doing so), you'll be able to do well. In short, the 277 has a higher ceiling than the IS-7, but it also requires a higher level of skill to do reasonably in.

 

The Vz.55 is not nearly as impenetrable as the Russian tanks, but still has decent, usable armour (a pretty strong turret, but a hull which is much weaker), speed as good as most Russian heavies, and the explosive power of a 2-shell burst with high alpha. You probably want some experience with the rhythm of autoloaders before considering this line, though a burst limited to only 2 shots is about as forgiving as autoloaders get. It also gets the high gun depression, same as the Polish 60 TP (and unlike the Russians) if gun dep is important to you.

 

The other Russian HT lines are a bit more gimmicky, so probably require a preference for their particular gimmicks.

 

I would not recommend the British line as a first TX heavy line.The T9 and TX are strong tanks (virtually impenetrable turret on the TX, notably stronger than even Russian turrets), but are slow and absolutely must be played hulldown to really shine which can make them unforgiving for the inexperienced. Plus the grind from T6 to T8 is wretched and the tanks are highly idiosyncratic if not outright awful. While fun can be had in those mid-tier British HTs if you happen to catch their zen, most people typically end up hating them.

 

That's a great write up!

 

If I were to start again and play a line all over it'd be the Chinese HT's. The 110 is a great tier 8 with amazing DPM and frontal armor if you can hide that lower plate.

The British line is really good too, but a bit confusing as there's two different play styles between the tier 5/6/7 tanks and the tier 8/9/10's. The Chinese and Russian HT's are a bit more forgiving as their pretty much consistent the way through.

You can always start a few different lines and see where you end up liking the specific playstyles.

 

GL with the grinds.


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FramFramson #11 Posted 14 September 2021 - 01:27 PM

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I usually hesitate to suggest the Chinese lines, because to me they're always "Do you want a Russian tank that has traded accuracy, gun handling, and DPM for a slightly higher alpha, when Russian tanks already don't have the greatest gun handling or accuracy?"

 

Or, more succinctly, "You wanna play the Russian lines, or a crappy knockoff of them?"


Edited by FramFramson, 14 September 2021 - 01:28 PM.


donnell59 #12 Posted 14 September 2021 - 03:17 PM

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Thanks for posting, very thankful and helpful.

 

 

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Edited by donnell59, 15 September 2021 - 12:19 PM.


mttspiii #13 Posted 14 September 2021 - 03:18 PM

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View PostFramFramson, on 14 September 2021 - 01:27 PM, said:

I usually hesitate to suggest the Chinese lines, because to me they're always "Do you want a Russian tank that has traded accuracy, gun handling, and DPM for a slightly higher alpha, when Russian tanks already don't have the greatest gun handling or accuracy?"

 

Or, more succinctly, "You wanna play the Russian lines, or a crappy knockoff of them?"

 

As a grind line, the IS-2 is just an IS with better armor, and the 110 is the worst tier 8 HT (AMX 65t has gun dep at least), trading alpha, armor, ammorack, and...everything else in exchange for getting the "Worst tier 8" trophy.

 

It's the WZ's that became slightly decent, but IS-8 and 277 are just plain better.


Edited by mttspiii, 14 September 2021 - 03:19 PM.

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The_Big_M #14 Posted 14 September 2021 - 03:39 PM

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View Postmttspiii, on 14 September 2021 - 05:18 PM, said:

 

As a grind line, the IS-2 is just an IS with better armor, and the 110 is the worst tier 8 HT (AMX 65t has gun dep at least), trading alpha, armor, ammorack, and...everything else in exchange for getting the "Worst tier 8" trophy.

 

 

Honestly, I didn't get that previous 110 comment. Like, I'm currently playing the O-Ho (cause of Japan ToT) and can make it work, and it has similar DPM (though weaker pen), like you can make the 110 work. But I wouldn't consider either of them great as tier 8 heavies. They both require good crew, and good player knowledge, and then you need to work at it to make them shine.



Ezz #15 Posted 14 September 2021 - 03:50 PM

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A long long time ago in a meta far far away, the 110 was a little competitive. At the time its gun and dpm was more reliable than the is3 and the is3's armor hadn't been buffed so there was a UFP advantage. But then the is3 got buffed so it was no longer worth considering. And since then basically every heavy prem sits above the is3 so the poor 110 doesn't have much hope. It's main (only?) saving grace is the 11111114 and 11111115a that sit above it.


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FramFramson #16 Posted 15 September 2021 - 03:47 AM

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Even those are just... well... just go the 277 line because the end result is almost exactly the same, only slightly better (remember when it was the 5A instead of the 277 for default TX filler HT? lol).
 

I will happily concede the the Chinese IS-2 (don't forget there's like TWO Russian IS-2s as well, all of which are different tanks lol) is a better IS (mainly for the huge improvement in having a proper sloped glacis instead of a nearly-flat driver murder "SHOOT HERE" box) but it's T7, so, eh.



mttspiii #17 Posted 15 September 2021 - 07:11 PM

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View PostThe_Big_M, on 14 September 2021 - 03:39 PM, said:

Honestly, I didn't get that previous 110 comment. Like, I'm currently playing the O-Ho (cause of Japan ToT) and can make it work, and it has similar DPM (though weaker pen), like you can make the 110 work. But I wouldn't consider either of them great as tier 8 heavies. They both require good crew, and good player knowledge, and then you need to work at it to make them shine.

 

With your skills, you can probably make any tier 8 work. 110 just takes more effort to do the same amount of work as, say, IS-2-II, or CS-52 LIS.

 

O-Ho's a different thing altogether though.


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